Jennifer Rothschild is a recording artist, author of several books, and a nationally known inspirational speaker. She is also blind. Connected editor Bert Williams sat down for a visit with Jennifer in her home in Springfield, Missouri. This is the second and last portion of the interview.

BW: Let’s talk about your new book, Self Talk, Soul Talk. What does the title mean?

JR: We all talk to ourselves. Everybody knows that.

BW: In the book you say that we talk to ourselves as many as 50,000 times per day! Is that really true?

JR: If you really start to pay attention to how many thoughts run through your mind, it starts to makes sense.

BW: I guess we’re not talking about all of these being deep thoughts.

JR: No (laughter)! It’s just, where’d I put my keys? I can’t forget to pick up my child from school. That’s the self talk. But there is this powerful minority of words that we say to ourselves that we assign deep emotion to, such as: “You’re so stupid.” “You can’t do anything right,” “You are such an idiot.” When self talk turns destructive it can completely change the texture of our lives.

BW: Why the “Soul Talk” part of the title?

JR: Soul Talk is turning those destructive thoughts into constructive, truthful talk—speaking truth to your soul.

BW: But, when I think back over my life, I just cringe at some of the stupid things I’ve done. I think, “Oh I hope nobody remembers that (laughter). I was such an idiot.” And it’s true, I was! Is it always untruth when you say to yourself, “I’m such an idiot?” I mean, sometimes, isn’t it the case?

JR: Well, I am very careful, in the book, that I don’t use the words positive or negative. The reason is because some of the most negative things you might say to your soul can be some of the healthiest.

BW: I was going to ask about that. The Holy Spirit brings conviction of truth to the heart of the Christian, and sometimes . . .

JR: . . . it doesn’t feel good.

BW: Yeah, and so if you’re always doing “happy talk” to yourself, it seems like that could run counter to the Holy Spirit trying to enter your mind and convict you of sin or other needs that you have.

JR: Absolutely!

BW: So balance this for us: the need to speak constructively to ourselves, and yet the need to be open to the Holy Spirit saying, “You’ve got to change. This isn’t good.”

JR: Exactly! What I recommend—I give Biblical examples—is speaking truth to your soul. And sometimes the truth is: “Jennifer, you blew it. You should not have said that to her.”

BW: So you’re not trying to avoid that.

JR: No way! I embrace truth, because truth is what brings us freedom. I give an example in the book about speaking gasoline words or water words to your soul. What happens is, let’s say you blew it—something you shouldn’t have done.

BW: It’s been known to happen.

JR: OK, we’ll take that one isolated event in your life and use it as an example (laughter).

BW: If only it were true (more laughter).

JR: If you speak gasoline words to your soul, and you go, “Oh, Bert, you’re such an idiot,” you’re creating this inferno—you are angry, you’re hot, you’re discontent. Or. . .  you can throw water words into that fire, and you can say, “You know what, Bert, you blew it. You did not use the self-control the Spirit gave you.” That is very different than throwing gasoline. But you know, water doesn’t always feel good. If you have a wound, it doesn’t always feel good to cleanse it, but it brings healing.

BW: You say that sometimes, in our attempt to feel better about ourselves, we put other people down. Is the reverse true? If we put ourselves down, does that lift other people up?

JR: No. Truth is in the Word of God. When that becomes your source and your standard of truth, it’s impossible for you to debase yourself in order to lift someone else up. That is, again, inverted pride. When you do lift other people up—when that becomes the way you do life—then you are strengthened in the process. You’re not lowered or reduced.

BW: Let me get a little bit personal. You’re attractive, you’re talented, you have a successful career, your husband has a successful career, we’re sitting in your beautiful home. Isn’t it easier for you to speak kind words to yourself in your self talk than for others who may not seem very successful—people who may be living in a small apartment on a minimal income, and who just feel like they’re at a dead end?

JR: Hmm (long pause). I don’t know if it’s easier. I think it’s hard all the time. We haven’t always lived in this home. And I don’t base what I say to my soul on my external circumstances. Our externals—whether they be polish and posh or just terrible—they’re not the source of truth in soul talk. Only God’s Word is. The reason I didn’t say it’s necessarily easier is that it still requires great discipline for me to speak truth to my soul. But I’ve learned that it’s not worth the lack of discipline. Because you can spiral down pretty quickly, if you don’t choose to be consistent and disciplined.

BW: You’ve spoken before large crowds, and you mentioned spiraling downward. Do you ever have an experience like Elijah when he had that incredible success with the prophets of Baal on Mount Carmel and then it was no time before he had a melt-down. Has that been your experience, ever?

JR: Yes! In fact, it happened several times before I finally tuned in. It’s important to be spiritually alert. The Psalmist said “Awake, my soul.” Tune in. Be spiritually alert. When I finally did that, I began to understand my melt-downs, and I guess that’s why I don’t think it’s necessarily easier if you have means or if you have nothing. We can be at that height of adrenalin and activity, and suddenly go to nothing, and we can get confused and think that who we are is what we do, and so we have no idea who we are.

BW: Who we are is not what we do?

JR: No. It’s not. Absolutely it’s not. I guess that’s why I am grateful for the successes that God has given me, but I’m not enamored by them. There is something about success that is so deceitful. So part of me is very aware because of past experiences to not let myself get too self-aware, because I know how deadly it is for me.

BW: You write that our problems have less to do with our circumstances than with the way we choose to feel about our circumstances.

JR: Yes. This is something I’ve learned in the last decade. Feelings are really powerful, but they’re not based on fact. A lot of us—especially women, because we are such professional feelers—confuse the two. We should feel our feelings—whether they’re about success or tragedy. Whatever it is that’s evoking emotion, we should feel those feelings, but we should never assume that the feelings are the destination. Those feelings should become for us something like an intuitive detective that leads us to truth. I see that in the example of Jesus. You mentioned earlier the scripture in Hebrews 12 where Jesus, “for the joy that was set before Him,” endured His cross even though He despised the shame. Shame is just a feeling. This doesn’t mean to go into denial and repress, but it means you keep it in perspective. And doing so has helped me manage the trappings of blindness, and just life in general. There’s a lot out there that doesn’t make sense—that isn’t fair, that frustrates us and makes us sad. If you can feel the feelings, and let them eventually direct you to truth, it gives you a place to land.

BW: Sometimes when people talk about feelings, it almost seems like the implication is that we can choose the feelings we will have.

JR: We can’t always choose our feelings, but I do think we can eventually choose how to manage them. As the apostle Paul talks about in 2 Corinthians 10, we can hold those thoughts captive, and then we can bring them to the obedience of Christ. It doesn’t mean that they’re not real; it doesn’t mean they’re not powerful; it doesn’t mean they’re not legitimate. It just means that the feelings are not the destination. And I believe if we can learn to trust God more than we trust our feelings, eventually those feelings are going to direct us to truth.

BW: That’s an important thought: Where do we put our trust?

JR: Seriously. Sometimes our feelings feel so powerful and God seems so remote, it’s easier to trust our feelings, but that’s deceit. God does not change, and our feelings do.

BW: You also talk about the need to “chill out,” or maybe—to sound more Biblical—to be at rest in our souls. You call this a “soul Sabbath.” It may not be easy to actually accomplish that. It seems like, as soon as you think about quieting the noise of thought, you’ve thought about the noise. How do you actually do it?

JR: You’re striving to rest.

BW: Yes, so how do you actually rest?

JR: Oh man. Well, I do think you have to almost arrest your senses, to make yourself do this. I remember when Phil and I were in the Lamaze classes before the birth of our first child, and his job was to tell me to relax (laughter).

BW: Yeah: “RELAX!!”

JR: Exactly! (more laughter) The formula that I use in the book is to divert daily, withdraw weekly, and abandon annually. Which means: take time every day to get alone and be quiet—listen to music, listen to a book, have some hot tea on the back porch. Do something every day that causes you to “divert.” Once a week, “withdraw.” Pull back. Let your body, your mind, your emotions, your spirit just rest. Then once a year, “abandon.” Just take a vacation. Just get away from it all.

BW: And those things sound like being irresponsible, but the implication is that it’s irresponsible not to do them.

JR: It is! In the Christian faith, it’s so meritorious to give and to push forward and to sacrifice yourself, and that’s wonderful, but . . . if the God of the universe created this beautiful creation . . .

BW: “. . . and on the seventh day He rested. . .”

JR: Yes! Then how audacious to think that we should not need rest. We should follow His example.

BW: Well Jennifer, is there anything more you would like to say, particularly to our visually impaired readers, that might be a source of encouragement and strength?

JR: I know that in an interview setting like this, I may have answers that seem polished, but I don’t want that to mislead another blind listener into thinking, “Well, I’m a mess. I don’t sound like I’ve got it together like she does.” Anytime someone sounds like they’re polished, it’s because of the private sandpaper of life. Whatever they are dealing with at the moment, just because they may not sound or feel like they have it all together, that doesn’t mean they’re not in the process.

BW: We are all continuously in the process.

JR: We sure are. And the victory is not in finishing the process. The victory is in every day enduring the process. Just keep on keeping on.

BW: Would you be willing to pray for us as we conclude?

JR: I would be honored. . . Father, thank you that you love us, and that you’ve chosen to call us by Your name. Thank you for the hope that we have in Jesus. Thank you that it is Christ in us who is our hope of glory. Father, I pray for listeners who may be discouraged—that you may grant them encouragement. For listeners that may feel vulnerable—that you will be their shield and shelter. For listeners who may feel inadequate—that you would remind them that you are their portion. And more than anything, God, for listeners who feel like they are really in the dark—whether it may be physical darkness or emotional or spiritual darkness—I pray for the light of your Word to penetrate their darkness, and that Jesus, who is the Light of the World, would come in and illuminate their pain and their darkness. God, we trust You, and we need You, and we thank You from the bottom or our hearts for Jesus. In His name we pray. Amen.